{"id":599,"date":"2023-07-01T12:00:09","date_gmt":"2023-07-01T12:00:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/?p=599"},"modified":"2023-07-22T06:11:24","modified_gmt":"2023-07-22T06:11:24","slug":"july-3-2023","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/?p=599","title":{"rendered":"July 3, 2023"},"content":{"rendered":"

MINUTES MVUDSS BOARD MEETING 7\/3\/23\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

IN ATTENDANCE:\u00a0 <\/span>S. Baranick (SB); R. Barnhart (RB); J. Hansell (JH); E. Rushing (ER); G. Stevenson (GS)
\nGUEST: C. Yap<\/p>\n

1. Action Items\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

a. JH\/SB – modify\/post MVUDSS Rule 7 Late Roster Arrival<\/span> \u2013 Completed 6\/16\/23.\u00a0 <\/span>Item closed.<\/b><\/p>\n

<\/b>b. JH\/SB – modify\/post MVUDSS Rule 18. Make safety bag plays safer rule<\/span> (new SSUSA rule for 2023) SSUSA rule not adopted.\u00a0 <\/span>Completed 6\/16\/23.\u00a0<\/span> Item closed.
\n<\/b><\/p>\n

c. JH\/SB – modify\/post MVUDSS Rule 22. Tournament<\/span> – Completed 6\/16\/23.\u00a0 <\/span>Item closed.
\n<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

d. JH\/SB – prepare draft Forfeiture Penalty Policy<\/span> – Completed 6\/27\/23.\u00a0 <\/span>Draft discussed in 2.d. below.\u00a0 <\/span>Item closed.
\n<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

e. SB – email .csv Player Finder database file to GS.\u00a0 <\/span>Completed 6\/12\/23.\u00a0 <\/span>SB tested.\u00a0 <\/span>Finder works.\u00a0 <\/span>Item closed.
\n<\/b><\/p>\n

f. SB – bring a doz. NCS Dudley 44\/525 Thunder ZN softballs to try out at a BP.\u00a0 <\/span>Balls provided to RB on 6\/14 and 6\/21\/23.\u00a0 <\/span>RB waiting to involve testing these balls with J. Roach who has been very expressive regarding balls being used by MVUDSS.\u00a0 <\/span>JH mentioned that consideration will be given to MVUDSS accepting either the Thunder balls or the Trump Stote 44\/375 Microcells, with which RB is familiar. Item remains open.
\n<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

g. SB – contact Dan Gutierrez (DG); re. Sammy\u2019s Cafe (SC) status. SB spoke to DB on 6\/15\/23 and confirmed that SC will no longer be in the league.\u00a0 <\/span>On 6\/21\/23, JH also spoke to DG at the SSUSA So. Cal Championships and confirmed that SC will no longer be in the Monday league and that no SC players will be in the Monday league draft.\u00a0 <\/span>Item closed.
\n<\/b><\/p>\n

h. GS – email website videos re. Player Finder, Archives, and modifying tables to SB.\u00a0 <\/span>Completed on 6\/17\/23.
\nFor the MVUDSS website, GS is to supply SB with In Memoriam and MVUDSS Board Minutes archives.
\nItem remains open.
\n<\/b><\/p>\n

i. ER \u2013 to attempt to store ER\u2019s wagon in storage bin.\u00a0 <\/span>ER brought wagon to Board meeting.\u00a0 <\/span>SB retrieved the wagon from ER and will plan visit to BLD to test wagon’s fit in MVUDSS storage bin.\u00a0 <\/span>Item remains open.
\n<\/b><\/p>\n

j. RB \u2013 received a Fall roster from Taylor-Made Pools Inc. (formerly North County)\/Don Chandler (DC)).
\nThis included a list of 13 players and recommended ratings from DC.\u00a0 <\/span>TMPI will only be permitted to have 12 players on their roster.\u00a0 <\/span>The Board reviewed TMPI’s proposed player ratings as part of 3.f. below.\u00a0 <\/span>RB will communicate the Board’s review\/rating of the TMPI players to DC.
\nItem remains open.
\n<\/b><\/p>\n

k. DC also requested for the Board to consider starting games at 8:00 a., as traffic is an issue for TMPI relative to later starting games.\u00a0 <\/span>JH pointed out that if we’re unable to get an earlier start time, TMPI should consider ceasing their after game BBQ in the BLD parking lot.\u00a0 <\/span>RB suggested that we approach Tom Lowry, at BLD, and request an 8:00 am start time considering the heat factor, based on our starting the Fall 2023 season in mid-August and the potential for very hot days continuing through October and beyond. \u00a0 <\/span>JH indicated that such a change may have an impact on a few Monday players who travel a distance, but the change would be better for the majority of the league.\u00a0 <\/span>RB to speak to Tom Lowry.
\nItem remains open.<\/b><\/p>\n

2. Open items from previous meetings\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

a. The Board will consider purchasing NCS Dudley 44\/525 Thunder ZN softballs, 5 doz. @ $60\/doz. from AWS\/NCS, or Trump Stote Microcells, 44\/375 @ $73 doz.\u00a0 <\/span>See 1.f. above.\u00a0 <\/span>Requires Board approval.
\nItem remains open.<\/b><\/p>\n

b. Pending the results of 1.i. above, the Board will consider purchasing a new wagon like ER\u2019s, for $169.99 + tax + S\/H.\u00a0 <\/span>Requires Board approval.\u00a0 <\/span>Item remains open.<\/b><\/p>\n

d. Forfeiture Fee Policy
\n<\/span>SB and JH prepared a draft Forfeiture Fee Policy (Attachment B<\/span>) which the Board had in advance of this meeting, and which was reviewed, in detail, by the Board.\u00a0 <\/span>This policy was drafted in response to two recent forfeitures, one by North County, the other by Gold Standard.\u00a0 <\/span>RB questioned the need for such a policy since forfeitures occur so infrequently.\u00a0 <\/span>SB\/JH agreed with RB’s contention that they happen infrequently, but argued that the policy is drafted, and unless there is something(s) within the content of the policy that RB, or other Board members, disagree, it would be prudent to have a policy prepared and approved in the advent of another infrequent occurrence.\u00a0 <\/span>JH motioned, and GS seconded, to adopt the language in Attachment B as MVUDSS league’s Forfeiture Fee Policy.\u00a0 <\/span>Motion passed 5-0.\u00a0<\/span><\/b> SB to include this new policy with other league policies posted on the league website.\u00a0 <\/span>Item remains open.
\n<\/b>(Subsequent to the Board meeting, Forfeiture Fee Policy changed to Forfeiture Penalty Policy, and any reference to Fee, herein, should be replaced with Penalty.)<\/span><\/p>\n

e. Courtesy Runner<\/span>
\n<\/span>This item was on the agenda, and thoroughly discussed in the 6\/12\/23 Board meeting, and the details are included in the minutes from that meeting.\u00a0 <\/span>JH just briefly reviewed the facts which led to the drafting of a proposed MVUDSS league Courtesy Runner rule, which was included in the 6\/12\/23 Board meeting, and which is shown as Attachment C<\/span> with these minutes.\u00a0 <\/span>A motion and second was made in the 6\/12\/23 Board meeting to approve the proposed Courtesy Runner Rule.\u00a0 <\/span>After much discussion in the 6\/12\/23 meeting, GS asked if a vote could not be taken in this (6\/12\/23) meeting to give him time to review.\u00a0 <\/span>This topic was tabled until the next Board meeting (7\/3\/23) with the open motion still in effect.<\/p>\n

RB\/SB\/ER argued that they did not see the need to deviate on this issue from the existing SSUSA Courtesy Runner rule.\u00a0 <\/span>They argued that they saw no reason to deviate from the SSUSA rule as this occurs so infrequently.\u00a0 <\/span>SB argued that approving such a rule would open it up for others to argue, as an example, that a batter\/runner, would not have to go to second base on a ground rule double.\u00a0 <\/span>RB stated that these are tournament players.\u00a0 <\/span>They know the rules, or should know the rules.\u00a0 <\/span>JH told the Board to refer to Attachment D<\/span> which they have in their Board package, and he referenced Attachment F<\/span>, which they do not have in their Board package as discussions he had, respectively, with Stephanie Hopkins (SH) at SSUSA and Donna McGuire (DM), Chairperson of SSUSA’s National Rules Committee.\u00a0 <\/span>These discussions were an attempt to determine the logic, rationale, baseball reasons for having their Courtesy Runner Rules.\u00a0 <\/span>JH noted to the Board that SH also spoke to Terry Hennessy about the rule’s origins.\u00a0 <\/span>JH stated that the three individuals basically said there were two primary reasons for having their CR rules:<\/p>\n

1)\u00a0 <\/span>To give clarity and control to the umpire regarding what\/(who) transpires around a given base;<\/p>\n

2) To ensure the batter\/runner, existing on base runners, \u201cacquire\u201d the succeeding base, as the acquiring of a base is a basic tenet of baseball.\u00a0 <\/span>JH noted, and a significant argument if favor of adopting the proposed CR policy, is that at the point in time that SSUSA changed their rule to allow a HR hitter to hit\/sit, and a year or two later permitted base runners to hit\/sit following a HR, the inviolate nature of \u201cacquiring\u201d a base no longer existed.
\nJH repeated a question he asked RB and other Board members, in the 6\/12\/23 Board meeting, and that was, could the invoking of the SSUSA CR rule in the game between the Sons of Arthritis and the Roadrunners have had an impact on the outcome of the game.
\nThe answer, again, received was yes.\u00a0 <\/span>JH stated that if such a rule was invoked and impacted even one game, it’s one game too many. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

JH’s comment regarding the players knowing, or that they should know the rules is that’s not arguable.\u00a0 <\/span>The issue is not of knowing, but of what is right; what is fair; what is a softball reason to have a rule.<\/p>\n

JH also stated that he felt that the punishment in the case of this rule was too severe.\u00a0 <\/span>At this time, although JH still supported adopting the motion as originally presented in the 6\/12\/23 Board meeting, he \u201cread\u201d the room and asked the dissenting Board members if they would consider adopting a warning given to the team in question, and if it happens again in the same game to impose a penalty of: (1) a strike on the batter or (2) an out.
\nThe dissenting Board members were receptive to neither.\u00a0 <\/span>GS mentioned another positive of approving the proposed rule is that having such a rule would speed up the game.<\/p>\n

At this time, the outstanding motion from the 6\/12\/23 Board meeting was recited to the Board.
\nMotion failed (JH\/GS) 2-3.\u00a0 <\/span>Item closed.<\/b><\/p>\n

3. 2023 Fall Season\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

a. Of the 72 Spring \u201823 players –<\/p>\n

67 RETURNING, 3 MAYBE, 1 POOL (Jennings), 1 TBD (McLaughlin);
\n<\/span>\u00a0 3 former dropouts RETURNING – Dan Olivas, Tel Preszler, Terry Shinn
\n2 new players – Billy Loard, Tony Greicius \u2013 need to be rated<\/p>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 Other possible players (5) –<\/p>\n

\u00a0 3 MAYBE – Lou Bratcher, Bill Newman, Tom Olsen
\n2 TBD – Jerry Smith, Mike Trusty\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

b. Issues<\/span> \u2013 looking like 6 local teams; managers \u2013 Prior to this Board meeting, the following committed to manage: Hank Alberts (non-playing\/pool), Chris Yap, John Leavitt (Assistant – Bates), Rob Hellman (Assistant \u2013 Hansell); On 6\/25\/23, JH generated an email to league players requesting more volunteer managers.\u00a0 <\/span>At this meeting, SB informed the Board that Kent Skidmore will manage a team and ER indicated he will manage, with SB as Assistant (non-playing\/pool.)\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

c. Player Draft<\/span> – Monday, August 7, 2023\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

d. SB recommended Schedules (assuming no rainouts\/cancellations):<\/p>\n

(1)\u00a0 <\/span>Fall 2023 Season <\/b>– starting Monday, August 14, 2023; ending December 11, 2023
\n7 teams; 12 games\/team with single-elimination tournament (not playoffs) on December 18; 48 games total;\u00a0 <\/span>no DHs\/local team unless rainouts\/cancellations; no byes; two 12:00 games\/local team;
\nProjected Balance<\/span>: $389.90 @ $55\/player league fee; includes new softballs & new wagon.
\nJH motioned and RB seconded that the Board approve a player league fee of $55 for the Fall 2023 season.
\nMotion passed 5-0.<\/b>\u00a0 <\/span>SB reminded the Board that managers have their league fee waived. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

(2)\u00a0 <\/span>Spring 2024 Season <\/b>– \u201ctentatively\u201d starting Monday, January 8, 2024; ending May 20; 7 teams;\u00a018 games\/team; no tournament\/playoffs; 63 games total; 3 DHs\/local team unless rainouts\/cancellations;\u00a0no byes; five 12:00 games\/local team;
\nProjected Balance<\/span>: $TBD @ $TBD\/player league fee.
\nItem remains open.<\/b><\/p>\n

e. North County has a new sponsor. \u00a0It is now \u201cTaylor-Made Pools Inc. (TMPI)\u201d.
\nSammy\u2019s Cafe dropped out as Dan Gutierrez is stepping down as manager.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

f. Rate Players \u2013 the Board rated all anticipated players, including TMPI and pool players.\u00a0 <\/span>SB will prepare a roster with Board ratings to be reviewed by the Board, one final time, prior to being used as a tool by managers during the draft.\u00a0<\/span> Item remains open.<\/b><\/p>\n

g. The Board \u201ccleansed\u201d the Pool Player List.\u00a0 <\/span>Item closed.<\/b><\/p>\n

h. SB is in the process of generating\/posting the rosters with player ratings, rules, schedule, standings, and Player Finder files on their respective website pages.
\nGS – after being hacked, the website, although usable, is in process of being rebuilt.
\nItem remains open.<\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Attachment B<\/b><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span>FORFEITURE PENALTY POLICY<\/b><\/p>\n

The following penalty policy will apply to any team which makes a \u201ccalculated\u201d decision to either not take the field at a scheduled time of play, or abandons the field of play, and who, based on the sole discretion of the Board of Directors, does not have sufficient rationale\/justification (to be determined, solely, at the discretion of the Board) to take such action.<\/p>\n

*Forfeiture of the game in question<\/p>\n

*A \u201cforfeiture\u201d of the next regularly scheduled game.\u00a0 <\/span>The team will be required to play this game, so as to not penalize the opposing team.\u00a0 <\/span>Runs scored\/allowed will \u201ccount\u201d for both teams. The game will count as a \u201closs\u201d to the team being assessed with the forfeit, irrespective of the result of the game, and a win for the opposing team. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

*If the team being assessed the forfeit refuses to play the assessed forfeited game, the Board will review all facts surrounding this decision, and, at its sole discretion, will determine, what, if any,\u00a0disciplinary action will be assessed and to whom.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Attachment C<\/b><\/p>\n

6\/12\/23<\/b><\/p>\n

Courtesy Runner<\/b><\/p>\n

*A courtesy runner is to be announced by the team on offense, including the base to which the courtesy runner is to assume, and is to be acknowledged by the umpire. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

*A courtesy runner can replace an existing runner anytime the ball is dead, and irrespective of the batter having \u201creceived\u201d a pitch.<\/p>\n

*A batter\/runner and\/or runner is not required to advance to, or touch, the base to which he is being replaced as a pinch runner. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

*A courtesy runner cannot be replaced by another courtesy runner except for injury causing permanent removal of the original courtesy runner from the game. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Attachment D<\/b><\/p>\n

From: Joe Hansell joeshirley@roadrunner.com
\nSubject: Fwd: courtesy runner rule
\nDate: June 30, 2023 at 3:30 PM
\nTo:<\/b><\/p>\n

Begin forwarded message:<\/b><\/p>\n

From: Joe Hansell <joeshirley@roadrunner.com>
\nSubject: Re: courtesy runner rule
\nDate: June 17, 2023 at 9:26:05 PM PDT
\nTo: Stephanie Hopkins <stephanie@SeniorSoftball.com><\/b><\/p>\n

Stephanie, thanks for the good conversation, and I appreciate your quick conversation with Terry, and your response below.<\/b><\/p>\n

I apologize, up front, if my following comments appear to be contrarian.<\/b><\/p>\n

In the days prior to hit\/sit in SSUSA for a home run, and long-standing MLB rules, I don\u2019t believe a batter hitting a home run has earned first, or any other base simply by virtue of hitting the home run.<\/b><\/p>\n

Prior to SSUSA hit\/sit and existing MLB rules, a batter, as well as any runner on base, had to touch each succeeding base.<\/b><\/p>\n

If the batter, or any runner on base, missed a base, on appeal, the batter\/runner could be called out. That suggests, to me, that no base was (is, in the case of an MLB player) earned until touched by the batter or runner. The logical conclusion I draw from SSUSA\u2019s hit\/sit rule is that \u201cearning\/acquiring\u201d a base is not inviolate (i.e. in the case of the home rune hitter and those on base when this occurs), therefore, in the case of a CR\u2019s pinch running, as example, when a batter is walked, I can conclude that the requirement to \u201cacquire\u201d 1B for this person could also be \u201cviolated” if the rule is changed to allow this.<\/b><\/p>\n

There is no argument that getting a base hit requires the batter to acquire, at least, 1B.<\/b><\/p>\n

I won\u2019t belabor this any further. I do, again, thank you for our conversation, and you\u2019re speaking to Terry.<\/b><\/p>\n

I think I will try Donna McGuire and\/or Rick Seifman to see if they can further enlighten the topic.<\/b><\/p>\n

Thanks again.<\/b><\/p>\n

Regards,<\/b><\/p>\n

Joe Hansell
\nMenifee Valley Upper Division Senior Softball
\nBoard Member<\/b><\/p>\n

On Jun 16, 2023, at 12:10 PM, Stephanie Hopkins <stephanie@SeniorSoftball.com> wrote:<\/b><\/p>\n

Hello Joe, It was great talking with you yesterday…it’s been a while! I spoke with Terry regarding the origination of the courtesy runner rule. As expected, it was designed to allow players who could no longer run long distances to continue to play. It has morphed into a different beast now, but originally, it was to help those who still wanted to play to play.<\/b><\/p>\n

Regarding reaching first base. When a player hits a home run over the fence, they’ve earned the bases as soon as the ball is gone. A base hit, the batter\/runner needs to earn that base, which is why they need to reach first in order to ask for a CR.<\/b><\/p>\n

Probably the answers you expected, just wanted to share the conversation with Terry.<\/b><\/p>\n

Also, we do have the rules committee meeting in December. If you have any rule changes, additions, modification suggestions, please feel free to attend or send a letter to Donna. The convention is in Florida this year, barring any tragic hurricanes, like last year.<\/b><\/p>\n

Thank you, have a great weekend,<\/b><\/p>\n

stephanie hopkins<\/b><\/p>\n

Senior Softball USA
\n9823 Old Winery Place, Suite 12
\nSacramento, CA 95827
\n916-326-5303 – of\ufb01ce<\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Attachment F<\/b><\/p>\n

Phone Call 7\/2\/23 with Donna McGuire (DM) \u2013 Chairperson of SSUSA Rules Committee<\/p>\n

Subject:\u00a0 <\/span>Courtesy Runner (CR) Rule<\/p>\n

In summary, I reviewed the CR call which was made against Sons of Arthritis by the Roadrunners during the recent double elimination tournament for the Spring 2023 season.\u00a0 <\/span>I told DM that a CR runner ran from the dugout to replace the runner that had been on 1B.\u00a0 <\/span>There had been two runners on base (1st<\/sup> & 2nd<\/sup>) and the batter walked.\u00a0 <\/span>The CR runner touched 2B before the runner that had been on 1B reached the base.\u00a0 <\/span>The defense appealed and the runner was called out.\u00a0 <\/span>I told DM that there was no dispute about the call. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I indicated to her that I had spoken to Stephanie Hopkins about this issue and that she recommended that I speak to DM.\u00a0 <\/span>I told DM that I didn’t need a clarification regarding the application of the rule, but was looking for the \u201cbaseball\u201d reason(s) for the rule.\u00a0 <\/span>I told her that I thought the penalty for violation of the rule was harsh, for a rule, in my estimation, that isn’t a \u201cbaseball\u201d rule.\u00a0 <\/span>She said that the rule exists for two reasons:<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. \n
      \n
    1. \n
        \n
      1. The batter runner, or runner(s) on base, must acquire the appropriate base before a CR can assume a given base.<\/li>\n
      2. Two allow the umpire to have some level of control as to what is transpiring on any given base<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

        I chose not to provide a counter to requiring a base to be \u201cacquired\u201d by not presenting their own \u201chit\/sit\u201d\u00a0 <\/span>HR rule for, originally the batter, and subsequently any runners on base when the HR was hit.\u00a0 <\/span>With that rule change, acquiring a base was no longer inviolate.<\/p>\n

        She offered that in some of the local leagues with which she is familiar, these leagues give a single warning, then if the team does this a second time at any point during the game, the out is invoked.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

        MINUTES MVUDSS BOARD MEETING 7\/3\/23\u00a0 IN ATTENDANCE:\u00a0 S. Baranick (SB); R. Barnhart (RB); J. Hansell (JH); E. Rushing (ER); G.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"colormag_page_layout":"default_layout","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0},"categories":[7],"tags":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/599"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=599"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/599\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":645,"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/599\/revisions\/645"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=599"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=599"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mvudss.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=599"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}